Two very different portrayals of Socrates and his beliefs about the Athens gods are presented in the Apology, as well as Clouds. In the Apology a Socrates appears who seems less concerned about the gods but more interested in promoting the common good. Clouds gives us an image of Socrates as he is prepared to argue over the existence and nature gods. By comparing Socrates’ beliefs at two different times in his life, we can better understand him. Plato consistently portrays Socrates – despite his changing beliefs – as an unreliable agnostic.

To begin with, it’s important to note that Socrates approaches argumentation differently in both Platonic works. Clouds is in many ways a representation of the journey that Socrates takes to the Apology. Together, they tell the story Socrates. Clouds depicts Socrates as he actively investigates and explores the natural, and even supernatural, phenomena that occur in his environment. Socrates was then put on trial by Plato for being meddlesome and doing injustice to the gods and earthly things. We can understand Socrates better by comparing his two works. Aristophanes The Clouds has many references to clouds that could have been interpreted as natural elements. The Clouds describes the natural elements of weather as if they were gods. Strepsaides raises scientific queries, such as “What’s the thunderbolt?”(Aristophanes 122) and Socrates provides equally scientific replies. “Whenever dry winds are raised high and get sucked into these cloud, they puff them up like a large bladder. They then have to be burst …”. Socrates addresses questions with a scientific perspective. Socrates is atheistic if we view him through the lens of scientific thinking. Today, the scientific answers to questions about deities often cause people to rethink their faith in gods. It is easy to reach this conclusion with Socrates’ bold statements about Zeus and the general skepticism of Greek gods. Atheism appears to be a logical outcome in The Clouds.

A Socrates who is indecisive on deities can be seen by the Apology. As he could be killed much more quickly if he made incorrect claims about gods. Socrates, when accused, seems to shift the subject to avoid having to address his views on gods. In another instance, Socrates goes off on a tangent regarding knowledge and the lack of it in himself (Plato 1970). In a second instance, he forces Meletus into an open discussion on what “corrupting youth” means (Plato 74) In his Apology, Socrates does not address directly whether he believes in gods or not. The ambiguity in the Apology and the Clouds’ argumentation make it possible that Socrates is an atheist.

The strongest argument I can find is that Socrates, while uncertain of the gods’ existence, does not deny it. Socrates is consistently opposed to the Athens-based gods. Socrates argues in Clouds that the gods are cloud-like and “become whatever they want” (Aristophanes 131). Socrates’s analogy is a subtle hint that gods cannot be pinned to a single position, even if they do exist. Socrates also states directly in another context that Zeus does not exist (Aristophanes 131). As opposed to believing in Athenian divinities, he has his own abstract viewpoint on the issue. Although he often pokes fun at Athens’ gods, he never offers a concrete alternative. Plato (81: ) says, “nothing has been better for you than to serve the god.” Plato claims that he “teaches them to believe there are gods” and that he is not atheistic.

With this in mind, it’s easy to understand why Socrates didn’t believe the Athens Gods. He is also repulsed by atheism. In the Apology, Socrates talks about knowledge. He says “…probably we both know nothing noble and great, but…I might be a little more wise than him about this: that what I do or do not know I am not sure I even know. Socrates is convinced that the greatest wisdom he can have is to know he doesn’t know anything. Socrates would not be considered an atheist by any definition. Atheism is a belief that you must have or pretend to have knowledge of everything to be able to reject the idea of any gods. Socrates believed that he was ignorant and therefore would not embrace such a belief. He would say that he did not know enough to make a wise decision about being an atheist.

Socrates’ rational decision to be agnostic is based on his rejection of both deism (theism) and atheism. Agnosticism is highly likely because Socrates believes he knows nothing. Socrates seems to evade the issue of gods by not stating an opinion. Socrates dodges the question repeatedly, and appears to be uncertain about his position (Plato 77-8). This uncertainty is largely due to the fact that Socrates has no idea what he’s talking about (Plato 70).

As a result of establishing Socrates as a relative skeptic on the topic of religion, Socrates’ beliefs about religion become clearer. Socrates takes an interesting detour to the natural sciences in order to explain the existence gods. Socrates brings this up in The Clouds. Socrates discusses the possibility that an ethereal vortex could be the driving force behind weather and other elements of nature (Aristophanes 131), immediately after declaring Zeus to be non-existent. Socrates’ new idea is that, contrary to the Athenian culture that placed emphasis on the gods controlling weather conditions, nature could actually be driving the changes in weather. He shows that clouds only appear above the sky when rain falls (Aristophanes 131). Socrates bolsters his argument by noting that lightning’s origin is also natural (Aristophanes 132).

This interest in natural sciences continues, surprisingly, even at the end of Socrates’ life. In Plato 76, we find him asking Meletus rhetorically, “Do you not believe in the sun and the moon as do other humans?” Meletus points this out by saying that Socrates believes in the sun as stone and earth. The argument appears to be valid. Socrates appears to have no problem with the sun’s being stone but also its being a God. Socrates is not convinced that nature can be a god.

The Apology also shows us Socrates investigating a new deity for his belief-system–diamonia. The definition of the word has been deliberately left uninterpreted, but it could be referring “divinities”. The Apology is a dialogue and argument that revolves around these vague terms. Socrates is not adamantly in favor of the Athens’ gods. Instead, he seems to share his moderate belief that there are other deities with his students. Socrates must appear in court for a number of reasons (Plato, 76). Socrates is still unsure of his beliefs in diamonia, even with this accusation. Instead of directly claiming that he believes in these deities, Socrates says: “If I believed in diamonia …”,” and “You say that I teach and believe diamonia …”,.” But he does not take a stance.

Socrates seems to have a certain amount of uncertainty regarding deism, atheism, and religion. In his Apology, he uses this as the strongest evidence to question whether religious discussion leads to justice. Socrates quotes Socrates’ accusers in Plato 77: “Socrates has done injustice not to believe in gods but to believe in gods.” Socrates comments, “And yet it is a joker’s conduct.” (Plato 77). Socrates believes that religion has corrupted the definition of justice by his accusers. Socrates does not care about establishing a religious belief because religion confuses justice. In the Apology he states, “What Gods will you swear on?” We don’t believe in gods (Aristophanes, 125).

Socrates is still losing interest in opposing the arguments, although he appears to be unconvinced. In The Clouds, Socrates is a more aggressive version who wants to fight. He also discusses the activities of the gods in the world. He makes sweeping statements about the gods, such as Zeus’ non-existence (Plato 131), but is also willing to share his opinions on any subject. On this front, the Socrates who appears in the Apology comes across as a very different character. “I’d accuse myself, in making my defence speech,” he said. “I don’t believe in gods.” Socrates in the Clouds was quick to respond with additional arguments to counter his accusers. Socrates the Apologist, on the other hand, abandons argumentation, a sign perhaps of his increasing wisdom.

Socrates seems to have little interest in making arguments based on strong opinions. The Apology is a different style of dialogue from the Clouds where Socrates often makes bold statements. Socrates’ ability to create an argument from questions is evident in his conversation with Meletus (Plato, 73-74). Socrates has perfected his Socratic technique and used it effectively by the Apology.

As we conclude our discussion on religion, it’s important to note that despite Socrates’ change of style and growth, he still appears to be undecided about the existence of Gods. One could make a good argument for Socrates being atheistic, but it would be more reasonable to suggest that he is an agnostic Socrates who is unsure about God’s existence. In his works, Socrates has explored a variety of viewpoints on the nature of gods or god-like forces. Despite this, he does not reach any conclusions. The only thing we see is a brilliant, if not naive, philosopher who is trying his best to navigate thorny religious issues in his own city.